ORLANDO – Saying the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) is close to “utter ruin” and possibly extinction, the New Wineskins Association of Churches has laid the groundwork for a group of congregations to leave the denomination together, probably to join the Evangelical Presbyterian Church (EPC).

The association voted unanimously Feb. 9 to ask the EPC to create a new, non-geographic presbytery into which congregations leaving the PC(USA) would be admitted, for a period of five years. The EPC’s General Assembly would have to approve such an idea in June, but “all indications are that we will step forward and begin a journey with you,” Paul Heidebrecht, moderator of the EPC’s General Assembly, told the New Wineskins.

The association also voted to recommend that congregations that are ready, take the necessary steps to be dismissed from the PC(USA), “taking with them their property,” and move to the EPC.

How many congregations are ready to go now is not clear, although turnout was strong at workshops for congregations that say they are ready to make that move, and for those heading in that direction, but not quite ready.

The association also passed a motion asking that New Wineskins-endorsing congregations willing to be publicly identified send their contact information and agree to have it posted on the New Wineskins Web site. Close to 600 people registered for the New Wineskins meeting Feb. 8-9 at First Church in Orlando, including representatives from 130 of the 151 endorsing churches, according to New Wineskins executive director Tom Edwards.

“I say, ‘Whoopee! EPC, here we come!’” said a delegate from Pittsburgh just before the vote.

The EPC, created in 1981, now has about 200 churches and 70,000 members – so an influx of members from the larger PC(USA) would be significant.

There may be some sticking points, however, in the proposed marriage of conservatives from the PC(USA) with the EPC – particularly over the issue of where the EPC stands on ordaining women.

Several speakers said the EPC has perhaps one or two women ordained as pastors. Russ Wilkins, a member of the New Wineskins leadership team, said  he doesn’t know whether any of the EPC’s current presbyteries are willing to ordain women.

The New Wineskins Association passed a motion asking its leadership team to affirm and to outline the biblical basis for women serving as pastors, elders, and deacons.

New Wineskins leaders have said that congregations leaving the PC(USA) would join the new, non-geographic presbytery for five years, and during that time both they and the EPC could evaluate whether the arrangement was working. Women ordained as pastors, elders, and deacons in the PC(USA) would retain their ordination in that transitional presbytery.

 But the question of what would happen after the five years – and whether the EPC would be ultimately willing to ordain women – remains to be seen.

“We need to make a statement” that at the end of five years, the EPC must agree to women’s ordination or that will be “a deal-breaker,” said Richard Wolling, a pastor from Pennsylvania.

“Don’t leave us behind,” Laurie Johnston, a pastor from Kansas, said during one workshop. “I want to make sure there’s a place for me somewhere” after five years.

New Wineskin co-moderator Gerrit Dawson said of the EPC: “They understand we’re coming with all our women.”

But he cautioned the New Wineskins from determining that women’s ordination is an “essential tenet” before discussions can continue further. “We’ve received a gracious invitation” from the EPC, Dawson said. “They know who we are. … The women will not be forgotten.”

There could be other theological concerns as well. During one workshop, a PC(USA) pastor asked a question about the EPC’s position on divorce and remarriage.

An EPC position paper describes marriage as a solemn, life-long covenant, but adultery or willful desertion can be grounds for a “biblical divorce.” And it states, “those who remarry after an improper divorce commit adultery and are subject to church discipline.”

Nancy Lee Cochran, a minister from Pennsylvania, also raised a concern about the makeup of the New Wineskins strategy team, which consisted of nine men. Cochran said she loves “every bit” of the strategy team report, but “I just don’t like the makeup of the group,” because “every one of them was a white male.”

Carmen Fowler, New Wineskins’ co-moderator, responded that seven of the nine strategy team members were chosen from nominations made at the New Wineskins meeting in July 2006, in Tulsa. “If you want different people,” Fowler said, “you have to nominate different people.”

There was, from the start of this meeting, a sense that it was time to act.

Evangelical Presbyterians “have seen the erosion of orthodoxy” in the PC(USA) “and are ready to do something about it,” said Randy Jenkins, chairman of the strategy team that presented the recommendations.

People referred over and over to the flashpoints of frustration in the PC(USA) – including the controversial report of the Theological Task Force on the Peace, Unity, and Purity of the PC(USA), which some contend could give local congregations and presbyteries leeway to ordain sexually-active gays and lesbians.

The report retains the denomination’s ordination standards, which limit ordination to those who practice fidelity if they are married or chastity if they’re single, but would allow a candidate who disagrees with the standard to declare a “scruple” or disagreement based on conscience, and to be ordained if the presbytery or congregation involved determined that such a departure from the standard didn’t involve an “essential” of Reformed faith or polity.

And some remain upset about a report the General Assembly received in 2006 on the Trinity, which describes alternate language for “Father, Son and Holy Spirit,” including “mother, child and womb.”

While individual congregations may have tough decisions ahead of them – the New Wineskins have said there are two faithful options, to go to the EPC or stay in the PC(USA) and work for change – it was clear many New Wineskins supporters came to this meeting determined to do more than just talk about their unhappiness with the PC(USA).

Earlier in the day, New Wineskins co-moderator Dean Weaver laid out some of the nuts-and-bolts of the EPC proposal.

Under PC(USA) polity, a congregation that wants to leave must be dismissed to another Reformed body in fellowship with the PC(USA). If the EPC creates a transitional presbytery, “they have created a place for us to be dismissed to,” Weaver said.

In the transitional presbytery, the New Wineskins congregations would become “almost a denomination within a denomination,” he said. Congregations would own their own property, and pastors and other church staff members could participate immediately in the EPC’s pension and health insurance plans.

Other Reformed groups outside the PC(USA) are expressing interest in what’s happening as well, Weaver said – for example, the Presbyterian Church of East Africa. People are saying, “We would like to graft our little tributary into that confluent stream” of a denomination that’s committed to focusing on mission around the world.

Despite that excitement, some folks won’t be pleased with what the New Wineskins is doing, Dawson told the group after the vote.

If churches leave the PC(USA), “somebody’s going to get smacked,” Dawson said. “It has to happen. In my experience, the flaming darts of the evil one are craftily designed,” although “the people who throw the darts are not satanic themselves.”

He encouraged the New Wineskins supporters to pick up their shields of faith, and realize that God “is our assurance.”

The New Wineskins Association will meet next Oct. 29-30 in Sacramento.