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May 9, 2008
“Two faithful options” to be presented at New Wineskins meeting in February
Leslie Scanlon, Outlook national reporter

When the New Wineskins Association of Churches meets again in Orlando in February, some of these evangelicals may be ready to leave the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) on the spot, others probably not.

So the New Wineskins leadership is planning to offer alternatives: a roadmap for those who think the PC(USA) has abandoned orthodoxy, including a proposal for PC(USA) congregations to leave the denomination and take their property with them.

A New Wineskins strategy report, prepared by a nine-person team and released publicly Jan. 16, speaks of “moving together to a new thing,” and says that “it is time to implement the strategy our Lord has given us to transform the world.” The report was written by a strategy team whose members are not named.

That new thing apparently could include leaving as a group, most likely for the Evangelical Presbyterian Church, http://www.epc.org/ or – for those not ready to take that step yet – staying in the PC(USA) and working for reform from within.

For those congregations considering departure, the Evangelical Presbyterian Church is considering providing them with a new option: creating a non-geographic, “transitional” presbytery or presbyteries where the departing congregations could move en masse.

The EPC’s stated clerk, Jeff Jeremiah, has written http://www.epc.org/general-assembly/EPNews2006/JJJ%20Messages/JJJMessageHistoricOpportunity.html that such presbyteries, if approved by the denomination’s General Assembly in June 2007, “will allow churches interested in coming into the EPC to provide safe haven outside their current denomination as quickly and as easily as possible.”

It encourages those that do stay to protect their property from denominational control and to “prepare for struggle and conflict,” in part by aligning with like-minded congregations in the New Wineskins ministry networks.

“We would now say there are two faithful options,” said Dean Weaver, pastor of Memorial Park Church http://www.memorialparkchurch.org/ in Pittsburgh and a co-moderator of the New Wineskins group. “It is faithful for evangelical churches to stay within the PC(USA) and have a witness there. And it is faithful for churches of conscience to consider realigning with other Presbyterian brothers and sisters from other denominations and advancing the kingdom that way. We want to provide resources for people” to do both.

The strategy team report, however, offers strong cautions for congregations that don’t feel ready to leave – and implies that much of the New Wineskins leadership may already be gone.

“The implications for those who stay are huge,” the report states. “The climate of the PC(USA) will undoubtedly change after we follow God’s call to a new thing. What was once a theologically evenly-divided presbytery may turn into one in which a significant majority favors the agenda of those who are more theologically liberal. We will no longer be able to fight the good fight with you or vote with you as we have in the past.”

And it states that “given the many years and millions of dollars faithful Presbyterians have put towards renewal of this once great denomination, and the continued slide the PC(USA) has taken into theological liberalism, we do not hold out much hope for renewal. Yet, we will fervently pray for you.”

For those ready to leave, the New Wineskins report states that there are both strategic and moral advantages to moving together towards that “new thing” – advantages, in other words, to acting as a group.

“The leadership of the PC(USA) appears convinced that we are a vocal but small dissident group that cannot or will not disaffiliate from the PC(USA),” the strategy team report states. “A vote by the NWAC (New Wineskins Association of Churches) and others to pursue a new thing sends a strong message to PC(USA) leaders that they have misread our faithful dissent. Now is the time for us to demonstrate our faithfulness to God’s call and cross over the Jordan to the Promised Land.”

By acting as a group, the report states, congregations are more likely to retain their property and financial assets – even if the denominational headquarters in Louisville doesn’t want that to happen.

“It is unlikely that presbyteries will devote the resources to support many separate legal actions” in many states and jurisdictions, the report states. “The best possible outcome, save repentance and true reformation, is that the presbyteries may turn their backs on Louisville’s demands and simply let us pursue a new thing. We fervently pray to God to make this so.”

The New Wineskins will meet at First Church in Orlando Feb. 8 and 9. So far, just over 150 churches have formally affiliated with New Wineskins, Weaver said – but what exactly that means may vary from congregation to congregation.

“I don’t think they’re monolithic,” Weaver said in an interview. “I’m guessing maybe a third of them are already out the door. A third are never going to leave. And a third need to discern what they’re going to be called to do.”

The strategy team report states that “for the PC(USA), the die was cast on two successive days in Birmingham, Alabama in 2006.”

 That’s when the assembly approved two controversial reports: one from the Theological Task Force on the Peace, Unity, and Purity of the PC(USA), and the other a report on the Trinity, which discusses other ways of referring to the Trinity beyond “Father, Son and Holy Spirit,” using names such as “Mother, Child and Womb” or “Rock, Redeemer and Friend.”

The report states that “we now believe that the PC(USA) has eroded Reformed orthodoxy and Presbyterian practice to a point where the collective conscience of many no longer allows us to remain aligned with this thinking.”

For those intending to leave, the report describes the idea of a new transitional presbytery in the Evangelical Presbyterian Church that would have the power to ordain, install, receive, and dismiss pastors. Each church in the presbytery would own its own property, and pastors and staff of congregations joining that presbytery could participate in the EPC medical and pension plan.

The five-year period for any transitional presbytery in the EPC would give churches leaving their old denomination a chance to heal from the break, and “gives us time to learn about them and whether they would be a good fit for us,” Jeremiah wrote. “We’ve repeatedly described our relationship with churches in the transitional presbytery as a `courtship.’ ”

The EPC, created in 1981, is a small denomination, with fewer than 200 churches and 70,000 members. What it would mean if an influx of PC(USA) congregations showed up there relatively soon remains to be seen.

But Weaver said he understands that the New Wineskins approach – including its proposed constitution – could be put into operation in a transitional EPC presbytery, so “we would have the ability to incubate that new concept.”

Peggy Hedden, of the Presbyterian Lay Committee, said that with a transitional presbytery, “the great hope would be there would be neither an EPC nor a New Wineskins but a new group that has the best features of both of those. It’ll be a new thing, but won’t be totally one or the other.”

Congregations that stay in the PC(USA) could still be part of the New Wineskins ministry networks, creating “an interesting permeable membrane” that would be partly within the PC(USA) and partly outside it, Weaver said. And Hedden said she expects that congregations considering leaving might approach their presbyteries as a group, to give them a stronger position in the negotiations.

Weaver also said he doesn’t anticipate problems regarding the ordination of women in the EPC – women ministers from the PC(USA) could still serve, he said, because in the EPC, the ordination of women is not considered an “essential” of faith.

“The great thing about the EPC is that for the EPC ordination standards in terms of doctrine are national – there’s no wiggle room there,” Weaver said. “But when it comes to the ordination of women, each congregation and presbytery gets to decide on their own.”

More than 40 of the New Wineskins congregations have women pastors, Weaver said, and the group has told the EPC that “all of our women pastors come with us. That’s a non-negotiable for us.

Weaver described the strategy team report, at 155 pages, as “a very concrete plan,” offering everything from legal information for congregations that want to leave to ordination procedures to information on how health and pension benefits could work.

The New Wineskins conversation is taking place in a broader context too, as the PC(USA) continues to work out the implications of the controversial report of the Theological Task Force on the Peace, Unity and Purity of the PC(USA).

At least 16 presbyteries have approved resolutions that basically say, in one form or another, that no attempts to allow “scruples” or deviations from the PC(USA)’s ordination standards will be permitted in that presbytery. But some contend that such resolutions – depending on how they’re worded – may well be unconstitutional, and challenges to those resolutions have been filed in at least four presbyteries: Olympia, Pittsburgh, Sacramento and Mid-South.

But there have not been – at least so far – a rush of cases in which candidates for ordination have declared “scruples,” or objections based on conscience, to some part of the ordination standards. When a candidate does announce a scruple, then the presbytery or session involved must decide whether that deviation from the standard would involve an “essential” of Reformed faith or polity, or whether it could be permitted.

In the meantime, New Wineskins will gather in Orlando in February.

Delegates will be asked to encourage the EPC to establish non-geographic presbyteries when that denomination’s General Assembly meets on June 20-23, 2007.

Congregations ready to leave the PC(USA) will be asked to take steps to align themselves with another Reformed denomination – and to prepare to take their property with them.

Congregations that aren’t sure yet should continue to study the matter and pray, the strategy team recommends.

And for those that want to remain in the PC(USA), the recommendation is to faithfully proclaim the gospel and the Word of God – no matter how difficult that may be.

 






“Two faithful options” to be presented at New Wineskins meeting in February
Leslie Scanlon, Outlook national reporter

 

When the New Wineskins Association of Churches meets again in Orlando in February, some of these evangelicals may be ready to leave the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) on the spot, others probably not.

So the New Wineskins leadership is planning to offer alternatives: a roadmap for those who think the PC(USA) has abandoned orthodoxy, including a proposal for PC(USA) congregations to leave the denomination and take their property with them.



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Reader Responses
Peter Barnes-Davies
wondering about faithfulness
San Anselmo, California
Posted: 02/02/2007

Will someone please explain to me how “it is faithful” to blatantly disregard the constitutional and biblical standards of our Church? In our Presbyterian form of government, we believe that “all property is held in trust.” We believe this in the PC(USA) because of our honest appreciation of biblical passages like Acts 2:44, which describe the unity of the early church in beautiful terms: “All who believed were together and had all things in common.” So I ask again, how is it faithful to actively disdain the biblical and constitutional standards of our church, the PC(USA)? The New Wineskins Association of Churches is doing just this. They encourage elders and ministers to ignore chapter 8 of the Book of Order. They actively promote a spirit of distrust and division in the body of Christ. And they disobediently counsel PC(USA) congregations to break faith with our relational and representative way of following the Holy Spirit’s lead in collective discernment of the will of Christ.

I do not object to any congregation’s desire to seek communion with another member of the Church universal. Even if 150 churches wanted to leave the PC(USA) en masse and join the EPC, I do not object. I only ask that if they were to do so, they would do so in a way that honors the constitutional and biblical standards of the communion to which they currently belong.

Speaking of honoring that communion, our PC(USA), I believe the Outlook did us all a disservice in your January 29 article (“Two faithful options”). You provide ample quotation from Jeff Jeremiah, Stated Clerk of the EPC (a communion to which few of your readers likely belong), and yet you failed to interview our own Stated Clerk, Rev. Cliff Kirkpatrick, or anyone in his office? Looking back at this article, I am appalled by this oversight and frankly astonished that the other leaders you quote come from conservative affinity groups in the PC(USA), the Lay Committee and (in the print version) the Coalition. Honestly, what does the great middle of the church say about the New Wineskins movement? Is it truly faithful to promote an active disregard for core elements of our constitutional standard? On these levels, your article leaves me wondering.
Jake Weaver
Non-active Elder, Graystone PC, Indiana Pa.
Indiana, Pennsylvania
Posted: 02/02/2007
An ordained elder for 44 yrs it breaks my heart that the PCUSA in it's deceitful posture and its descent into "culturism" has abandoned me.
Unfortunatly my church has a conflicted congregation--1/3 Evangelical, 1/3 cultural oriented and 1/3 in love with our beautiful church building and dont have the foggiest idea about what the issues are. Our minister, an avowed Evangelical, has his hands full and I pray for him daily. Since Graystone will never break away, I must look for another church. I applaud both New Wineskins and the EPC. Maybe someday they will start a missional church
here in Indiana Pa.
Michael Mccarty
Church property
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Posted: 02/02/2007
Re: Mr. Cole's comments on 1/29. He says "it seems to me that the new wineskins crowd is giving these schismatically inclined congregations awfully blithe advice on the matter of leaving the pcusa with their church properties. the book of order is clear enough that these properties are held in trust for the denomination."

I'm not sure of what schism he speaks--the Body of Christ is one and New Wineskins is not leaving. They are simply looking to re-organize a man-made construct known as a denomination and to move their voluntary affiliation with a group that has veered away from the historiuc principles of the Reformed faith to one that has remained faithful to Scripture. Unless Mr. Cole believes the PC(USA) alone is the "true church," where's the schism? If that is his position, I suspect that his Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, etc., neighbors may disagree.

I also question his reliance on a unilaterally adopted provision in the Book of Order which individual congregations were never allowed to refuse, and which they never legally adopted in the form of written trust agreements or deeds of trust. I wonder how he would feel if I "blithely" and uiterally declared that he holds all of his property in trust for me and then relied on that declaration alone, even if it was unsupported by the law of Tennessee?

Mac
Arthur Paine
Choosing between non-moving lines at the bank
Dayton, Ohio
Posted: 02/01/2007
Have you ever been at a bank or a grocery store and had to choose which line to get in? Invariably, it seems that we choose the one that is not moving, and another inches forward. Then, we have to choose whether to stay in the line we are in or to move.

The bottom line for Presbyterians of whatever stripe is that the Reformed faith is having a decreasing impact on the society around us. And jumping from one Reformed denomination to another is not going to solve much, if anything.

Presbyterians needs to get back to their roots and believe that we have a life-changing message to share with people. Our lives should be centered on our faith. How can we believe with fervor what is in Scripture, the Book of Order, and Book of Confessions and seldom ask anyone to come with us to church to hear it for themselves? Denominations grow when people invite others to worship with them and when visitors find the worship and other activities compelling.

If some have their way, they will "get in another line." But twenty years from now, they will find that not much more is being accomplished than before.

The true fast lane serves re-ordered priorities, makes Jesus' self-described mission statement (Luke 19:10) our own, and discourages us from being drawn into divisive debates.

In Christ,

Chaplain Tom Paine
USAF
Greg Wiest
Ernie Thompson's comment on "wiggle room"
Cranberry Township, Pennsylvania
Posted: 01/30/2007
Thompson's comparison of women's ordination to gay ordination is a comparison of apples and oranges. When I last checked the Bible it was not a sin to be a woman. Homosexuality is always considered sin in Scripture. There are examples of women in leadership in the Scriptures, I find none of homosexuals. The answer to Thompson's question about how the "wiggle room" differs between gay ordination and women's ordination is in a word: "Scripture".
Shawn Coons
Associate Pastor, St. Philip
Houston, Texas
Posted: 01/30/2007
It saddens me to know that there are Presbyterian Christians who are willing to schism over whether or not ordination of homosexuals is an essential, yet they are willing to join a denomination where ordination of women is not an essential.

Can't people see this is a step backwards?
james p. cole
about church property
Memphis, Tennessee
Posted: 01/29/2007
dear outlook,
in follow up stories, especially those about the upcoming orlando meeting, i would like to see more depth on property issues. it seems to me that the new wineskins crowd is giving these schismatically inclined congregations awfully blithe advice on the matter of leaving the pcusa with their church properties. the book of order is clear enough that these properties are held in trust for the denomination. from a polity standpoint, it's fundamentally a matter of "depart if you must, but leave the keys in the top drawer."
thanks,
jpc
Kenneth Cuthbertson
Member-at-large, Santa Fe Presbytery
Albuquerque, New Mexico
Posted: 01/29/2007
There has been no real "peace" or "unity" in the northern stream of the PCUSA since before 1967, when C67 was proposed and debated. No "purity" either, I suppose. That is now over 40 years of ongoing friction. It is now 30 years since we began the eternal debate on GLBT ordination. Sooner or later shouldn't we all face the realities of irreconcilable differences and just let go?

Despite their deep pain, when I talk to Episcopalian friends there is often a surprising sense of energy and hope about what is unfolding among them, both among conservatives and progressives. The sense seems to be that at least they are "getting on with it!" Maybe we Presbyterians need to pay closer attention to that. Maybe our current obsession with peace, unity, and purity is an ego trip -- for all sides -- and God really is calling us to divergent paths?
Ernie Thompson
Wilmington, North Carolina
Posted: 01/29/2007
I cannot help but comment on the irony of Dean Weaver’s comments that “The great thing about the EPC is that for the EPC ordination standards in terms of doctrine are national – there’s no wiggle room there. But when it comes to the ordination of women each congregation and Presbytery gets to decide on their own.” This comment is made while Weaver’s organization, the New Wine Skins Association, condemns the PUP report for creating “wiggle room” for congregations and Presbyteries on the issue of ordination of homosexuals. This is not an issue of the authority of Scripture or the Lordship of Jesus Christ but rather an issue of differing interpretations of Scripture. Stacy Johnson’s new book, A Time to Embrace, makes it clear those with a high view of Scripture and unquestioned loyalty to Jesus Christ can come to different conclusions about the Biblical teachings on homosexuality. Neither is this an issue of cultural accommodation by moderates and liberals, as is so often charged, since an equally strong argument can be made that the conservative position is an accommodation to unbiblical cultural norms that stigmatize homosexuality and use gays as a scapegoat for society’s anxiety. How then is wiggle room on the issue of woman’s ordination a “great thing,” but wiggle room on the issue of homosexuality an apostasy which justifies dividing the church?

Joel Tolbert
Sounds strangely familiar
Decatur, Georgia
Posted: 01/25/2007
In the "Two Faithful Options" article, Weaver, co-moderator of the New Wineskins group states in conjoining sentences that "The great thing about the EPC (Evangelical Presbyterian Church) is that for the EPC, ordination standards, in terms of doctrine, are national - there's no wiggle room there... But when it comes to the ordination of women, each congregation and presbytery gets to decide on their own."
I thought he said there were national standards, with no wiggle room? With as much sacred sarcasm as possible, is he suggesting that Presbyteries and Sessions in the EPC have "local option" regarding ordination of certain individuals (women today, who tomorrow?) based on differing interpretations of Scripture and the Confessions across the different bodies of the church? If so, those congregations should consider that they may be only jumping out of the proverbial frying pan and into the fire.
I'd suggest to all congregations considering this kind of leap to instead stay, engage, and learn that there are "truths and forms with respect to which (people) of good characters and principles may differ." (BoO G-1.0305)
Rev. Joel L. Tolbert
Pastor, Rehoboth Presbyterian
Decatur, GA
David Cameron
Pastor, Rockfish Presbyterian Church
Nellysford, Virginia
Posted: 01/22/2007
In reference to the New Wineskins roadmap for staying or leaving (1/16/07). I'm confused. According to the report, New Wineskins folk believe it's a good thing that the Evangelical Presbyerian Church allows individual congregations and presbyteries to "decide on their own" whom they believe God calls to service as ordained elders and ministers of the word and sacraments. Yet, many of the same leaders would seek resolutions in Presbyteries prohibiting those presbyterys and sessions within those presbyteries the same freedom of conscience. Must be one of those mysteries of faith. God bless us everyone.
Cameron Mott
Paola, Kansas
Posted: 01/19/2007
I have only read the first 22 pages of this report but Brother Bruce, God bless your heart, you have hit the nail on the head in my opinion.

On the other hand, since we have already been repeatedly publically condemned wholesale as a denomination, I'd love to see a series of examinations of the depth and breadth of both sides of each of the handful of accusations that are being hurled about as if they are facts or justifications that we should tear ourselves apart over.
Bruce Berry
Jefferson City, Missouri
Posted: 01/19/2007
Marrhew 18 has some interesting words for us all....15: "If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother.
16: But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every word may be confirmed by the evidence of two or three witnesses.
17: If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector."

I hope before any congregation makes a decision about breaking their covenant with the PCUSA they take time to listen and talk with their presbytery. We have fallen so low that our discussions are about "what if's" not even about "acts." God save us from ourselves!
Mark Smith
Member, Presbyterian Church of Lawrenceville NJ
Hamilton, New Jersey
Posted: 01/18/2007
It's time to let go.

Those congregations that will be so unhappy in the PCUSA that they want to leave should be allowed to do so with their property. Obviously some accommodation must be made for current loans and it would be nice if recipients of recent grants made a financial gesture, but we should not try to tie the hands of those who wish to depart. We should create an orderly manner for this departure - at the presbytery level if we can't wait until the next General Assembly.

The fighting is shutting down meaningful progress by both those who wish to go and those who will be staying. Let's recognize that and find a way to a separate but congenial existence.

Go with God.

  

 
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