Letters to the Editor
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Article : Panel says it has reached a dead end in efforts to get 3 companies to change practices in Israel
Reader Response : I am disappointed but not surprised by this decision of the General Assembly Mission Council. There is, to my mind, an obsession (at the official levels of our denomination) with condemning Israel that can be very intimidating for those of us who disagree. I've heard Presbytery leaders and seminary professors, for example, bring up Israel to angrily complain about that state, even in unrelated conversations. Few people would speak up for the other perspective. For that reason I salute Kears Pollock for speaking up. From this article, he sounded like a lonely voice. But I think many of us in the denomination serving as Pastors and Ruling Elders support what he said.
Response By : John Erthein - DeFuniak Springs , FL - February 18, 2012
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Article : Where have all the “angry” elders gone?
Reader Response : My experience has been somewhat different from what Mr. Babcock sets out. In my previous church, I found that Elders were very assertive. Expressing their opinions was never a problem. The issue, as I saw it, was their lack of interest in and refusal to learn about Reformed theology, polity and ethics. The result was very damaging ... people with a sense of entitlement but little sense of responsibility.
Response By : John Erthein - DeFuniak Springs , FL - February 18, 2012
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Reader Response : An admittedly biased note....after six years on our COM, two as moderator, I have observed no negative or biased issues re: women and leadership within the presbytery. Indeed, without them, where would we be? The issues seems to be with PNCs! At this point in our denominational life, will a $140,000 study resolve that? I do not presume to know.
Response By : BILL BROWNFIELD - RICHMOND , VA - February 18, 2012
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Reader Response : The Presbytery of New Covenant has an overture headed to the General Assembly that reverses the MRTI recommendation and reverses selective divestment from Israel. Taking one side over another makes no sense in a peace process. We would be better peacemakers by bringing people together in dialogue rather than attacking one side or the other. Divestment is the tactic that has been used internally for years within our own denomination and we see how much closer it has brought us. It does not grant one more influence. In fact, it does quite the opposite.
Response By : Kyle Walker - February 17, 2012
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Article : Where have all the “angry” elders gone?
Reader Response : The crisis is found in the fact that we do not train and nurture ruling elders. They abdicate because they do not have confidence in their abilities. Essentially, I see too many teaching elders keeping control by keeping their ruling elders in the dark.
Response By : Kyle Walker - February 13, 2012
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Article : Please pass the fig leaves
Reader Response : I takes a great deal of humility and faith to do what you have done, Jack... Thank you for courageously offering up your own honest admission of guilt. I know it isn't easy in these days of instantaneous communication to avoid the pitfalls of ready, fire, aim! Been there, done that, got the t-shirt as we said in the military. These are indeed tough times... And yet, if we allow the Spirit to move and sustain... I believe that our family can and will come through this time. PW Gregory, you speak the truth, my friend! I too thank God that we don't have religious headhunters out there decapitating those who do not follow the "party line"... And I pray we never get to that place! Keep the faith and keep up the good work, Jack! Grace and Peace! Michael
Response By : Michael Moore - DeFuniak Springs , FL - February 8, 2012
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Reader Response : I agree with Charlie Campbell that this is not about schism. (It’s not necessarily, but it could be – see below.) It can be about alignment around mission. For example, the Reformed Church in America has a City Classis (their analog to our presbytery) for urban congregations from Paramount to Chicago to Philadelphia. [www.cityclassis.org] They did not declare the RCA apostate, but they allied with and committed to each other because of how much they shared in the particular challenges of their particular urban missions. Other alliances could form for us. The Korean language presbytery (Hanmi) in Southern California was intended to allow for this, but we, their So Cal neighbors, did not provide adequate collegiality and support, and the result was misunderstanding, alienation, and weak relationships. It was a bold experiment that we didn't handle well. So shall we learn from experiments and keep imagining, or shall we close the door on experimentation and say with misplaced confiden... ...Read Full Response
Response By : Steve Yamaguchi - Long Beach , CA - February 3, 2012
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Reader Response : re: affiliating with another presbytery: Why is this limited to presbyteries within synods or contiguous synods? That gives an advantage to presbyteries in the mid-US that coastal presbyteries may not have. re: NGPs: Does this mean that we increase the number of presbyteries in the denomination by whatever number of NGPs are created? Will they be included in denominational votes? Does my congregation, should we desire to join a NGP, vote with our presbytery of origin, or the NGP on amendments to the Constitution? Who will fund these NGPs? Who will staff these NGPs? Alas, (big sigh) I fear that we have stuck our heads in the sand, again. Lord have mercy.
Response By : Jim Caprell - Simpsonville , SC - February 3, 2012
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Reader Response : We have to begin by telling the truth to each other. This is about survival of a dwindling denomination and the typical scapegoating that goes on when survival is in question. Some blame theology, some blame structures, some blame gay people, some blame evangelicals. All call for "new models" waiting for everyone else to come up with them. The moment we cease trying to survive, blame, and reinvent the wheel and start addressing real pain in the world, all of this will melt away. Naval gazing is a deadly "safe harbor". "Tell me, O Mortal, What does the Lord Require of You but to do justice, love kindness and walk humbly with your God" "You shall love the Lord your God and love your neighbor as yourself." These are scriptural essentials and Jesus as revealed in scripture is where they are found. We can start here. Schism doesn't seem to be modeled anywhere in these essentials, in the character of Jesus Christ, or in Holy Scripture as a whole.
Response By : Kyle Walker - January 27, 2012
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Article : Economic equality?
Reader Response : Now might be the time to direct readers to my comments on Matthew 25 in my Outlook blog "Care For the Poor - Unrealistic?" (title mildly satirical) posted on 9-24-11.
Response By : Tom Hobson - Belleville , Illinois - January 25, 2012
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Article : Economic equality?
Reader Response : The Outlook demonstrates true bi-partisanship. The same Outlook that publishes what I write (within reason) also allows you to use name-calling like "partisan silliness." Can you acknowledge that both of us have a partisan point of view? Cries of "justice" can be just as simplistic as the rhetoric of the fundamentalists. When speaking of those who pay no taxes, in context, the claim to which I was responding had to do specifically with Federal income tax. Your response is helpful, that when all taxes are taken into account, the percent comes out fairly flat. As it should be. Are the rich responsible to give far more of their income to help those in need? Absolutely. To repeat, Jesus says, "To whom much is given, of them much will be required." But that is a function of God to require this, not government.
Response By : Tom Hobson - Belleville , Illinois - January 25, 2012
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Article : Economic equality?
Reader Response : I did not say that the God of the Bible has nothing to say about justice. I said that God nowhere defines explicitly what a fair wage or a fair price is (the dollar hadn't been invented yet), nor does God even decree that all income should be equal. The words of the prophets against injustice still stand, and Leviticus 25 would have preserved a comparatively egalitarian society if it had been obeyed. As for the rich paying lower tax rates, it's hard to pay lower than zero, which is what almost half of Americans pay. And if the economy is rigged, look who must have pulled the plug on it right before the 2008 election (cui bono?) - the same folks who spent a trillion dollars on "stimulus" and $500 million on Solyndra, none of which money benefited the poor.
Response By : Tom Hobson - Belleville , Illinois - January 23, 2012
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Reader Response : I'm confused. I thought that this group was being intentionally set up so that people would not have to make an either/or choice if they did not want to. In other words, I thought it would be possible to be a part of this new Reformed body and still be a member of the PC(USA). Is that not the case? Editor's response: Yes. While the new Reformed body, the Evangelical Covenant Order of Presbyterians, has been formed for those churches wishing to leave the PC(USA), the Fellowship of Presbyterians is the organization that will allow churches and members remaining in the PC(USA) to affiliate together around the substance of the covenant that was presented in the conference. --JHH
Response By : jana blazek - Dubuque , IA - January 21, 2012
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Reader Response : First, Orlando did it straight up and honest I think.
Response By : Kyle Walker - January 21, 2012
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Reader Response : Ah, the fatal Presbyterian flaw emerges once again, full-blown - "We can do it better without you!" Our history is a one of splinters ... we have to ask if the world is substantially better, or even a little better, because of our cat-fighting and our efforts to be more "evangelical" or "orthodox" than you are. It's a question that can't be answered, of course, because we don't have access to alternative universes; all we have is the one in which we currently live. Though it is my suspicion that our "we can do it better without you" has resulted in less good and more theological pride, ecclesiastical ingrownness, accompanied by "bold" rhetoric painfully empty of meaning. Presbyterians, like moths drawn to the fire, are incurably romantic about the possibility of finding the true truth, the real real, and the real and true church. I wish them well with "God's dream," but like a wick without a firecracker, it'll burn bright and hot for awhile and then join all the other splinter groups i... ...Read Full Response
Response By : Tom Eggebeen - Los Angeles , CA - January 20, 2012
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Article : Conference will open doors to a 'new Reformed body' but immediate departures from PC(USA) may be few
Reader Response : Coming from a curious youth perspective, Is there any way that one will be able to watch or listen to this Conference online ? “Editor’s response: We have contacted the organizers of the Fellowship of Presbyterians conference. They tell us that live streaming of presentations will not be provided. However, they will be posting written versions of the major addresses as soon as possible. Also, we also understand that the official Twitter hashtag will be #fellowshippres. --JHH”
Response By : jana blazek - Dubuque , IA - January 17, 2012
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Reader Response : I recently left the church where I have had my membership due to them still remaining a part of the PCUSA. I cannot, in good conscience, remain a part of a denomination that "votes" sins out of the Scripture. I also wonder why no such letters were ever written to the groups that actually divided the denomination - arrogantly named More Light Presbyterians, That All May Freely Serve, Covenant Network and other groups. Why is it that the "Fellowship" group is called out and those other groups were never called out for all these years for their divisiveness? Those leaving and have left the denomination are showing a lot more respect than those groups that called for continual voting until they got their way and worked to get enough of their representatives in various churches to be a part of their voting process.
Response By : Charles Jeffery - Burbank , CA - January 13, 2012
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Reader Response : I need to mention that Rev. Haberer sent a private message to me that corrected my claim that Moderator Bolbach will not attend the Fellowship Convocation. She is in fact planning to attend after all. I apologize to Ms. Bolbach for making an inaccurate claim. I made it in good faith but I was wrong nonetheless. Respectfully, John Erthein DeFuniak Springs, FL
Response By : John Erthein - DeFuniak Springs , FL - January 12, 2012
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Reader Response : My apologies, I refered to the Fellowship Convocation being in Atlanta, that was a mistake. It is in Orlando.
Response By : John Erthein - DeFuniak Springs , FL - January 12, 2012
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Reader Response : I do not know if I need to establish my bona fides by stating: first, that I am not attending the Fellowship Convocation in Atlanta; and second, that my congregation has no plans to leave the PC(USA) because we feel called to establish an evangelical witness within our Presbytery. I have my own reservations about what the Fellowship leadership thinks it can accomplish. But since I did share that, I also want to say that I find this letter to be very unfortunate. Moderator Bolbach previously refused to attend the upcoming Fellowship Convocation in Orlando because "schism" would be discussed. On the other hand, she, along with the other signers of this letter, are arguably encouraging dissension and conflict within congregations by encouraging members to "insist" that the congregation leaders expose their congregations "to the voices of Presbyterians who are resolute in their desire to stay." If the goal is to disrupt evangelical congregations considering departure, this letter me... ...Read Full Response
Response By : John Erthein - DeFuniak Springs , FL - January 12, 2012
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Reader Response : I would have more confidence that liberals want conservatives to stay in the PCUSA if those liberals listened to the essential need for some differentiation within the PCUSA to be allowed for conservatives and responded to that need. (Ex: Support the idea of non-geographic presbyteries or the tier two or three options being discussed within The Fellowship.) I still hope either the middle governing bodies commission, which meets next month to release their recommendations, or the next General Assembly will act to provide some hope for differentiation within, but the hope grows dimmer because no liberals in leadership positions either in the denomination or in one of the liberal advocacy groups are voicing their support for such ideas. Liberals are saying one thing (we want to you to stay) but are doing another (not helping promote a faithful way within for conservatives). As on old saying states, "Actions speak louder than words." Or as I have heard it stated elsewher... ...Read Full Response
Response By : Matt Ferguson - January 12, 2012
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Reader Response : It seems to me we begin at the wrong end of things when we want to create...Only God, through the Holy Spirit, can create. Consider the revival of the Korean Presbyterian Church way back when. It began in a General Assembly worship with a mutual confession of opposing parties, after a time of deep prayer. Read about it. Maybe we could lay aside the GA agenda and pray for the church and pray for ourselves. Confession is good for the soul and spreading the gospel is still our individaul and collective response..ability I learned this in the UPCNA.
Response By : - January 5, 2012
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Article : Union Presbytery movement revisited
Reader Response : There is no question that the purpose of union governing bodies would function very differently in the present case than they did when they were first invented. So what? The need is different this time. Many churches and ministers feel like spouses who have been battered by left-wing bigots. We do not wish to divorce the PC(USA), but we wish to live in a separate apartment, connected to our home, to see if reconciliation may be possible. We might achieve the same results (in a far more amicable way) that we did in the New School/Old School split of the 1800's. Or not. The storm clouds of mandatory gay ordination (i.e. the Kenyonizing of 10-A) currently being proposed do not bode well for the future. But we can hope. I welcome the possibility of some safe space to stay connected but differentiate. Is that too much to ask?
Response By : Tom Hobson - Belleville , Illinois - December 28, 2011
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Reader Response : I, too, am grateful to be a part of a church that has, mostly, over the years, stood on the side of justice and inclusion. I know these are buzz-words, but to me, they are the Gospel of Jesus. I was born and baptized a Presbyterian, raised in the Reformed Church of America and went to Calvin College, a Christian Reformed Church college and Western Seminary, an RCA school. I know theology and love Scripture, and I know the fatal flaw of the Reformed/Presbyterian tradition: we believe that, given time and effort, we can write a perfect theological statement that fully reflects the glory of Christ and the whole counsel of God. We've been working at it since our inception in Geneva, and a lot of blood has been spilled over the centuries. Some would say the spilled blood is worth it. Questionable, I suppose, but it's in our nature (read the end of Genesis 8); we love the smell of blood in the morning, or is that napalm? I'm now honorable retired - please note the adverb "honorably" - and I'... ...Read Full Response
Response By : Tom Eggebeen - Los Angeles , CA - December 9, 2011
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Reader Response : It is indeed a sad time for the Presbyterian Church that we continue to "take our marbles and go home" when things don't go as one pleases. It would seem that the PC(USA) made provisions for the minority viewpoint by allowing bodies to make decisions locally regarding 10-A (that's what it is really all about). It is more troubling to me to read elements of the polity for NRB that says the congregation/presbytery can stay in the PC(USA)and have a "union" relationship with NRB. Sounds like an effort to "have your cake and eat it too" in terms of the property/trust requirements of the PCUSA. In the face of declining memberships across denominations, we should be more focused on accepting the discernment of Christ's purpose for us in the world through the work of the Holy Spirit in guiding our Church even in it's votes on changes to the Constitution. Grace, peace and love be with you.
Response By : Kenneth Whitehurst - Atlanta , GA - December 8, 2011
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Article : A lesson from my dad
Reader Response : If the aneurysm analogy is accurate, then in my experience you are reading the situation exactly backwards. My dad, a deliberate non-believer, was also a long-term alcoholic and chain smoker who was diagnosed with an abdominal aortic aneurism late in life. He had two choices: live as an invalid like your father or undergo very risky surgery to repair the aneurysm. He chose the surgery. While in the hospital he underwent lengthy delirium tremens due to alcohol withdrawal. Shocked afterwards to learn that he lost three weeks of his life that he could not remember, he gave up drinking. In the years ahead he grew more uncomfortable with the congestion the smoking caused, and eventually cut down to an occasional use of a pipe. In every case he faced a life-threatening issue, and chose to correct the medical or behavioral defect in order to live. He gained about fifteen more years by doing so. Family life revived as he made healthier choices. Finally, the day before he died, he sa... ...Read Full Response
Response By : Michael Armistead - Bluffton , SC - December 7, 2011
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Article : “Also in this issue…”
Reader Response : Why isn't the Horizons bible Study on this site? HELP
Response By : Gayle Schmidt - Orlanado , FL - November 26, 2011
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Reader Response : Resnicoff is almost correct. “A priest is still a priest. A rabbi is still a rabbi. A minister is still a minister,” -- except for Presbyterian clergy. With the adoption of our new Form of Government, a minister is now a Teacher Elder. Have fun explaining that to one of our military personnel. Probably it will never be discussed because the title, Teaching Elder,is irrelevant to those looking for a minister. I wonder if we will ever be ministers again?
Response By : Paul Nazarian - Houston , TX - November 23, 2011
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Reader Response : While I regret churches severing ties with us, it's a good thing for all parties concerned. If the Presbyterian Church in Ghana wants to go its own way, without further ties to us, and sending our missionaries back home to the States, I can only see good coming from this. Every church has to settle its own affairs. After 40 years of struggle, perhaps we've finally settled some of our affairs. It will take time for the church of Ghana, too. And who knows how the Spirit will lead. While we can decry their potential decision, we ought not to needlessly wring our hands and beat ourselves up. I'm very proud of the PCUSA for the way in which we've handled this, and I look forward to good days.
Response By : Tom Eggebeen - Los Angeles , CA - November 3, 2011
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Reader Response : Glad to read this note! The decision to move forward on the larger question of ordination has been hammered out in the PCUSA throughout the last 40 years. The decision of the Presbyterian Church of Mexico to sever ties with us is a precipitous decision that surely needs more time; cooler heads and more thoughtful people as Mr. Certantes-Ortiz will help.
Response By : Tom Eggebeen - Los Angeles , CA - November 2, 2011
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Reader Response : Robert, thanks for the note ... sure, but we have to be careful to read the whole story. The Prodigal Son highlights a part of the "easy welcome" - while the boy rehearsed his elaborate apology, the Father dismissed it at the first words and shouted for the fatted calf and clean clothes. Jesus with Zacchaeus, the woman caught (John 8 may not be original, but I like the story), the Gentile woman and the crumbs, the bleeding woman, the woman who washed his feet with tears, the blind man - all of these were folks, who, in one way or the other, has been found wanting and excluded by the Jerusalem establishment. If Jesus has harsh words, it's for the "righteous" who are convinced of their own goodness, the scribes and Pharisees who fashioned themselves as "keepers of righteousness and morality," and the pretenders, who offered to follow, but only on their own terms. It was the "easy welcome" of "sinners and tax collectors" that infuriated the establishment who built their "business" o... ...Read Full Response
Response By : Tom Eggebeen - Los Angeles , CA - October 26, 2011
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Article : Ghana's Presbyterian church may follow Mexico's in severing ties with PC(USA) over gay ordination
Reader Response : Pete, your analysis of my response is beyond reason. If you and I were sitting down with a cup of coffee, I might just say, "Pete, don't be silly!" I'm serious about my faith, and I know that you are, too. And likely, across a table, you would never suggest such a silly thing to me (although I've had a leading evangelical say that directly to my face at meeting, and I responded, "Let's not be silly!) Please, I may be wrong about a lot of things, but suggesting, as you have, what the outcome of my reasoning/thinking/faith-process is uncalled for. I can just as easily suggest your line of reasoning and your approach to the faith would lead us back to the Dark Ages, the repression of women, the re-institution of slavery, child-labor, psoriasis, bad-breath and road-rage. We all follow lines of reasoning - knowing when to stop is the issue, not the reasoning process itself. Since we all are sinners, and our reasoning always flawed by dark materials (Genesis 8.21), only grace allows us t... ...Read Full Response
Response By : Tom Eggebeen - Los Angeles , CA - October 22, 2011
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Reader Response : It's hard to change. Always has been, and will remain so until the final trump shall sound. Throughout the history of the church, dire consequences were offered up when change came a-calling. The Book of Acts and the struggle of the church to figure out what to do with "Gentiles," for heaven's sake. And in the Middle Ages, what about those monks who took seriously the call to poverty, a call that often embarrassed the church with its radical resistance to material comfort. At other points, when people of color were welcomed, goodness, what next? And then women. Scripture was cited and tradition lifted up to counter all of these changes, and then some. Prayers were offered, and hymns were sung as the "faithful" expected nothing but the worst from all of this. The demise of the church hasn't happened yet, in spite of so many predictions. Do you suppose the survival of the church has something to do with Christ as its head? As a rule of thumb, when Jesus dealt with opposition to his minis... ...Read Full Response
Response By : Tom Eggebeen - Los Angeles , CA - October 22, 2011
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Article : Scott Anderson ordained
Reader Response : Ordination has always been a "statement" of some sort ... about those who are "eligible" and those who are not. Certainly all the issues related to the ordination of people of color, and women, were fraught with statements and stances. Ordination has always been a function of gatekeeping, and, hence, power, and will be so, I suppose, to the end of the age.
Response By : Tom Eggebeen - Los Angeles , CA - October 22, 2011
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Article : The pope has died …
Reader Response : Thank you for this testimony to Stott's character and influence. Your last quotation from the Steer biography says a lot about the man. Though his convictions were deep and personal, he was able to rise above the "evangelical temptation" (as I call it) - that of leaving for greener pastures, and in so staying within the fold of the faith, discovering "other sheep" that are equally faithful and valiant, though sometimes of a different breed - well enough of this husbandry language. Stott was a great man, and God grant him rest now in the glorious presence of the Christ whom he loved so dearly and served so thoroughly.
Response By : Tom Eggebeen - Los Angeles , CA - October 22, 2011
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Article : Scott Anderson ordained
Reader Response : Has it occurred to anyone that problem may not be who can be ordained, but with the institution of ordination itself? Is setting aside people for ordination, who supposedly meet certain standards of righteousness and holiness, compatible with the priesthood of believers? Ordination is appears to me unbiblical,of human construct. Jesus simply said follow me.
Response By : john McNeese - October 11, 2011
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Article : Scott Anderson ordained
Reader Response : Has it occurred to anyone that problem may not be who can be ordained, but with the institution of ordination itself? Is setting aside people for ordination, who supposedly meet certain standards of righteousness and holiness, compatible with the priesthood of believers? Ordination is appears to me unbiblical,of human construct. Jesus simply said follow me.
Response By : john McNeese - October 11, 2011
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Reader Response : I have just a few comments, mainly in response to the comments of others. Currently we have non-geographic presbyteries: Dakota, Midwest Hanmi, etc. They function well. Also, I said nearly 20 years ago that denominations, as we currently know them, will cease to exist within the next century. What I see the larger church moving toward in our country is loose associations of churches. All denominations are in decline, but there is a rapid growth in church associations, especially in the house church movement. This move to non-geographic presbyteries could well be the way God is leading the Presbyterian Church to have a presence in the future. Those who claim this is the functional demise of the Presbyterian Church need to consider other possibilities. It is no longer 1957, and will never be 1957 again. We need to position our congregations for effective mission in 2012 and beyond. Finally, one of the main reasons given for nFOG was to allow congregations be more flexible in th... ...Read Full Response
Response By : David McCann - October 11, 2011
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Reader Response : I find it interesting, and maybe instructive, that all of the comments concern non-geographic presbyteries and not the elimination of synods. For myself, I feel a sense of loss and grief at the thought of losing the sense of connection I have with the Synod of the Trinity. I understand that not all experiences have been as positive or fruitful as mine, but that does not lessen the sense of loss.
Response By : Dave Lee - Nitro , WV - October 11, 2011
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Reader Response : I, too, am saddened by this unnecessary, if not mean-spirited, legal maneuvering. Lisa has waited patiently and lovingly for the weight of glory in the hands of the church upon her. The church spoke convincingly on the matter after years of thoughtful dialogue, debate and sometimes harsh words. I can't imagine how difficult this is for Lisa - the dream is within reach, and now this. I can only pray and hope that it will be quickly resolved and set aside, so, that with Paul, we can forget what lies behind and reach for what is before us, the high calling of God in Christ.
Response By : Tom Eggebeen - Los Angeles , CA - October 10, 2011
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Article : Year of Plenty
Reader Response : I just finished reading Year of Plenty and found it inspiring -- weaving theology in with the practices of everyday life! Our Sunday School class plans to read and discuss the book next month. There is a free discussion guide available on the author's blog site.
Response By : Leah Wyckoff - September 27, 2011
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Article : RE: ‘open letter’ to the PC(USA)
Reader Response : Dear Editor: I greatly appreciated O. Benjamin Sparks’ letter to the editor in the August 8 issue of the Outlook, as well as the Pentecost 2011 letter from the Committee on Theological Education that inspired it. Twenty-one years into a small church pastorate, I still find it exciting, challenging and rewarding. The facility-rich, money-rich, resource-rich, staff-rich and program-rich model is not the only faithful way to “do church.” It is not the only good structure for the work of drawing people into the embrace of Jesus Christ. It is not even the appropriate model for every context, culture, or population group. What if we stopped seeing small size as a problem or a failure and viewed it instead as an opportunity and even a strategic advantage? What if we saw small, strong congregations as one of God’s strategies for reaching people? At the moment, the PC(USA) is rich in small congregations, and just maybe God wants it that way. Many people will not be reached thr... ...Read Full Response
Response By : Mary Todd - Rocky Mount , North Carolina - September 26, 2011
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Reader Response : Well, I have mixed feelings about this decision. If you want to get a good picture of the situation with the Israelis and Palestinians, read The Lemon Tree. It's a great book. But onto this decision, I really struggle with it. Many companies manufacture products that, unfortunately, are misused. So why are the companies responsible for that? Some folks become addicted to prescription medicines, so should we divest and boycott all pharmaceutical companies? 10 years ago terrorists used passenger airplanes to destroy the World Trade Center, so should we divest and boycott all airlines and airplane manufacturers? If we truly decide to divest and boycott all companies whose products are misused thus bringing harm and injustices to others, we would not be able to invest in anything or buy anything. I think this decision is a rather simplistic reaction to a deep-seated complex issue. Returning to pre 1967 borders is not the solution either. Palestinians want to return to their home... ...Read Full Response
Response By : David McCann - September 14, 2011
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Article : Ghana's Presbyterian church may follow Mexico's in severing ties with PC(USA) over gay ordination
Reader Response : Whoever said justice would be popular ... even among Christians? After all, American churches tolerated, indeed,supported, slavery for nearly 200 years, and Jim Crow-like laws still function in portions of our culture. We have charted new territory, thanks be to God. That other churches would condemn us ought to make us stand up and give thanks. While we might rightly lament the loss of relationship with these churches, God will provide other ways and means for us to continue God's mission of reconciliation.
Response By : Tom Eggebeen - Los Angeles , CA - September 9, 2011
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Reader Response : It is painfully obvious that Dan Clark was not at the Minneapolis gathering, or he would have seen that women were (by my estimate) 35% of those in attendance, which compares favorably with the percentage of women clergy in our church. Women clergy actually exceeded what one would have expected for this gathering, since evangelical women are a definite minority of all women clergy, and a high proportion of those who do exist showed up for this gathering. Dan Clark may not realize that our lead conservative spokesperson in the latest PJC cases on ordination was a woman, Rev Dr Mary Naegeli, a woman who speaks more sense than most men or women do on the issue of Scripture, sexuality, and ordination. Dan is just one of a huge crowd in our church who wish to judge a whole movement not on its theological merits, but by checking the face of those involved. The Bible clearly condemns the "lifting of faces", yet those who wish to rightly advocate for justice for women and for all races oft... ...Read Full Response
Response By : Tom Hobson - Belleville , Illinois - September 6, 2011
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Reader Response : Given that all participants in the benefit plan make hefty contributions thereto through their churches of call (31% of gross salary and rising), it is misleading to lay this out as a one-sided benefit. In fact, concerning the health insurance portion of the BOP benefits, everyone on the plan benefits from the contributions of other members. I think it would behoove the BOP, and more importantly, other plan members, to consider what THEY would lose if so many contributors dropped out of the plan.
Response By : John Erthein - DeFuniak Springs , FL - September 2, 2011
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Reader Response : While the "purpose" of the webinar was to examine logistics and not 10-A, etc., 10-A was clearly at the center of the webinar. Here's what I wrote to my colleagues here in Los Angeles: The Webinar on Mexico just concluded … I can't put into words how deeply and profoundly disappointed I am in our national mission leadership right now. There wasn't one affirmation of our change in ord standards. It was all tears and sadness and boo-boo that our decision led a hyper-conservative body of men in Mexico - 116 - voted to sever relationships with us, even as they continue to deny ord to women. Apparently, the Mexican PC will continue some relationship to PCUSA Presbyteries who voted against 10-A, and will require of those presbyteries some written statement of their opposition to 10-A. While the stated purpose of the webinar was to be logistics, the underlying story was 10-A. There was even mention of a FL church crafting an overture to restore the former fidelity and chastity language... ...Read Full Response
Response By : Tom Eggebeen - Los Angeles , CA - September 1, 2011
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Reader Response : I have read the various articles on the Fellowship gathering, and the comments to the different articles. I have debated and prayed about responding, and finally decided to do so. What bothers me in the comments is the hatred, the prejudice, the intolerance of differing viewpoints, the assumption that commentators know what's in the minds and hearts of those who differ from them. If these comments are representative of the whole church, then the PCUSA is past being deathly ill - it is no longer a part of the true church. The apostle Paul described the three things that are necessary for a church to be ture and to be united: 1) have the same mind, which is the mind of Jesus Christ, 2) have the same love for each other, 3) be in full accord, or one in the Spirit. (Phil. 2:2) In Phil. 2:5-11, Paul explains what it means to have the same mind of Christ - accepting Jesus as human and God; accepting his sacrifice on the cross for our sins; exalting him Lord over all; all of which means... ...Read Full Response
Response By : David McCann - August 31, 2011
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Reader Response : Reply to Mr. Scott: I totally agree this should not hinge on two or three words alone. I think the whole narrative of Scripture is important to look to. Jesus Christ may not have anything to say about the subject of homosexuality but he certainly has a lot to say about how we treat each other and his example of bias toward grace over bias toward law (which admittedly does not negate law) is unmistakeable. Both my micro and macro readings of Scripture lead me to the same place. I've appreciated our conversation which has proven there is absolutely nothing irreconcilable about our differences. Until we can resume the dialogue,
Response By : Kyle Walker - August 31, 2011
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Reader Response : I'm sorry, Mr. Scott, I can't let a plea to argue outside of Scripture go. Homosexuality is not as clear of an issue in scripture as people believe when they trust English translation. While I don't think a full blown exegetical study is best done here on the Outlook blog, I do think the Bible is preciously the most competent place to have this discussion and I believe homosexual ordination holds up just as well as the ordination of women which I fully support as well. I admit, denominational liberals have been Biblically lazy without reason to be. I'll continue to stand with, not against, the Bible. There was certainly another Greek word which was in large usage (homosexuality was not foreign to the Greek world) at the time that meant what those against homosexuality as part of God's created and blessed order claim these texts point to yet it was not chosen. You just can't ignore that. There is much dispute on what the chosen word means and early texts reveal the diversity of ... ...Read Full Response
Response By : Kyle Walker - August 31, 2011
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