Comments for New Jersey pastor announces same-gender wedding at http://www.pres-outlook.com , comment 1 to 21 out of 20 comments http://www.pres-outlook.com Thu, 09 Feb 2012 22:35:59 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.pres-outlook.com/news-and-analysis3/1-news-a-analysis/9422-new-jersey-pastor-announces-same-gender-wedding.html#comment-5064 The Bible was inspired by God but written by men and open to many interpretations. Just as we cannot use the laws of the United States without occasional tweaking, we cannot use the Bible to perpetuate an unyielding society. Sometimes rules change because someone has been courageous. I've known Laurie McNeill for more than a decade and have watched her share her enthusiasm and love with congregants new and old, struggling and thriving. She is courageous and she is an inspiration and I am pleased that she has found love in her private life. - Carol Rescigno Fri, 27 Nov 2009 13:02:07 +0100 http://www.pres-outlook.com/news-and-analysis3/1-news-a-analysis/9422-new-jersey-pastor-announces-same-gender-wedding.html#comment-5058 Congratulations! Love! You are an inspiration. - Kiki Nusbaumer Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:39:43 +0100 http://www.pres-outlook.com/news-and-analysis3/1-news-a-analysis/9422-new-jersey-pastor-announces-same-gender-wedding.html#comment-5051 I admire the courage it takes for Laurie and Lisa to make this step publicly. Your profession of love presses the question: Will people know we are Christians by our love? There is a cloud of witnesses: Janie Spahr, Paul Capet and Lisa Largess et al. who have put it all on the line. Thank you for faithful service to the church. This is stressful and painful for our Presbyterian family to wrestle with these issues of love and justice but God never promised it would be easy. I pray that we all emerge from this struggle truer to the life Jesus modeled for us. Our boundaries and definitions need to be deconstructed so God's unconditional love can be expressed to all. We are called to be humble servants not gatekeepers. - Howard Dotson Sun, 22 Nov 2009 22:48:50 +0100 http://www.pres-outlook.com/news-and-analysis3/1-news-a-analysis/9422-new-jersey-pastor-announces-same-gender-wedding.html#comment-5050 What a surprise! Yet another minister in the PC(USA) who holds their "feelings" higher than the what the Word of God teaches. What do these people learn in their seminaries these days? They can quote Calvin and Augustine out the wazoo but do they even know objective Biblical doctrines? Pathetic. Just pathetic. - Mike Porter Sun, 22 Nov 2009 15:15:47 +0100 http://www.pres-outlook.com/news-and-analysis3/1-news-a-analysis/9422-new-jersey-pastor-announces-same-gender-wedding.html#comment-5049 In the eternal tug-of-war between the left and right in the church over the matter of gays, lesbians and a theology of sexuality, the aim of both bases has been to systematically seek to weaken a centrally, national based denomination response to the issues. Both sides would embrace a rather loser connection of semi-automomous regional, local responses to the issues of same sex and gender relationships in the church. Be careful what you wish for. At the end of the day, it will be a local matter for the church in question if they choose to support and employ as pastor who has done what has been done. And if the Presbytery in question chooses to address tha matter in the courts of the church. My guess is they, the presbytery, will roll-over on the matter, do nothing and allow the local church to come to its own peace about the matter. So be it. But be careful, what is good for the goose is good for the gander. Should they, the presbytery, the synod, adopt a more ham-handed and firmer response to those churches or clergy who wish to make their displeasure known through the matters of property or per capita, then I would question their overall sense of fairness and objectivity in the process. And in the end their agenda-hidden or otherwise. - P.W. Gregory Sun, 22 Nov 2009 14:01:52 +0100 http://www.pres-outlook.com/news-and-analysis3/1-news-a-analysis/9422-new-jersey-pastor-announces-same-gender-wedding.html#comment-5047 Earl, your comments are on target. When G-6.0106b was being debated on the floor of Presbytery, I stood and said, "This amendment is neither interested in chastity in singleness nor fidelity in marriage; it's a clever ploy to raise the bar against the ordination of Gays and Lesbians." - Tom Eggebeen Sun, 22 Nov 2009 04:58:38 +0100 http://www.pres-outlook.com/news-and-analysis3/1-news-a-analysis/9422-new-jersey-pastor-announces-same-gender-wedding.html#comment-5046 I as a gay man in the PC (USA) am inspired by Pastor Laurie McNeill. That is what good pastors do, they inspire us whether it is through their good words in the pulpit or how they lead their lives. Here is what I find really interesting. G-6.0106b has been in the Book of Order for over ten years now. I'm not sure about the statements abour marriage in the Directory of Worship but would suspect they have been there as long if not longer. Would not any rational person think that if G-6.0106b was to resolve the debate of LGBT persons in the church that after more than ten years we would no longer be discussing this? Yet we are. Here is the bottom line. The words homosexual, gay, lesbian, bi-sexual, transgender do not even appear in the Book of Order. Yet these are the words that all the debates and fuss are over regarding ordination or marriage. And the fact is the last GA nullified the AI of 1978 that was a bit more explicit but not part of the Constitution of the PC (USA). The solution to ending the debate and fuss is simple. If you are one that is on the so-called right or conservative, take action to make the Book of Order quite explicit as to what those who are homosexuals, gays, lesbians, bi-sexuals, and transgender can and cannot do. You have this in your power to do so don't sit back and complain, take action. As Presbyterians you have that right and privilege. As Christians it is your duty to speak what you belive to be the truth and show more compassion to those you believe engage in sinful behavior and need to be redeemed. Christ did not use wishy-washy language and neither should you if you truly believe this issue is that important. The bottom line is I think that those who promoted G-6.0106b and continue to defend it have only reaped what they have sowed. Normally one planting seed would expect the package to be quite explicit as to what will grow. But if it isn't quite so explicit, often times weeds grow in the mix and the desired results never appear. Just like when wishy-washy language is used to talk about certain groups of people, but not mentioning them by name and leaving an impression as though they don't exist. Not exactly like the parable of the sower but somewhat similar I think. Yours in Christ, Earl Apel - Earl Apel Sat, 21 Nov 2009 19:29:25 +0100 http://www.pres-outlook.com/news-and-analysis3/1-news-a-analysis/9422-new-jersey-pastor-announces-same-gender-wedding.html#comment-5043 This really disappoints me. I have just recently moved to the state I'm living in now looking for a church to attend the closest one within walking a distance happens to be Presbyterian, who knows if I decide to fellowship in there. I will just have to go and see. Anyway, I am just going to focus on some the statements that Ms. McNeill(will never call her Mrs. because she is not "married" at all in the Lord's eyes, and obviously not in mine.) said in light of Scripture. McNeill says, “I do have fidelity in my marriage,”(not according to the Bible Eph.5:26-33)I wonder who would be the husband or the wife in that relationship? Whose duty will it be to love the wife just as Christ loves the church and so on? And She said, “I believe that my relationship with Lisa is chaste."(not according to the Bible Matt.19:4) She said,"I believe it was chaste when we were single."(not according to the Bible Matt.5:28) She said,"It is chaste now that we are married."(not according to the Bible Matt.19:4) She says, "I think of that as purity and a holiness." I believe we have that in our relationship.”(not according to the Bible Matt.19:4) She also says she never deceived anyone about her sexuality, but when you take an oath and you behave contrary to the oath you've taken,that is deceptive. 1 Timothy 3, is very clear on what a bishop is supposed to be. I am also upset with some the comments I've read on here, accusing that the traditions we Presbyterians, or many other born again Christians like us, hold are medieval in its origion. No, the traditons we hold are neither old or new, they are eternal handed down to us by Almighty God Himself, in light of His eternal Scriptures. Who am I, or anyone else to interpret, change or compromise what God has ordained already? When will we understand that everything God ordains is good and pure? - Joel Zelaya Sat, 21 Nov 2009 11:42:09 +0100 http://www.pres-outlook.com/news-and-analysis3/1-news-a-analysis/9422-new-jersey-pastor-announces-same-gender-wedding.html#comment-5042 Living our lives under God's Word doesn't include how we feel, what we think is fair, or how we wish it should be. Our lives for the true born again christian is based on the clear teachings of the only written word of God that we have available to us and that is the Bible. Any life choice that is contrary to the word of God is called sin and that is clearly demonstrated in the actions of this couple. Yes, God is a God of love but he is also the God of judgement (as the bible clearly states) and this couple will need to answer for their actions at judgement time. - Rick Bender Sat, 21 Nov 2009 08:54:24 +0100 http://www.pres-outlook.com/news-and-analysis3/1-news-a-analysis/9422-new-jersey-pastor-announces-same-gender-wedding.html#comment-5041 Like all sinful gay people, she more likely did this out of sinful pride, selfishness and to cause trouble for the church body... not out of love. Rather than start her own religion, she wants Christians to abandon their historic faith and the inerrent scripture. Like all "more light" types, they want to hijack the PCUSA for their own purposes and for the money... Their form of "christianity" has nothing to do with what Jesus taught or God's redemption from sin. It is a form of hedonistic secular humanism surrounded by religious symbols. True Christians must come out from among them! - Bob Fnurn Sat, 21 Nov 2009 03:34:01 +0100 http://www.pres-outlook.com/news-and-analysis3/1-news-a-analysis/9422-new-jersey-pastor-announces-same-gender-wedding.html#comment-5040 Congratualtions! Our bible is a living instrument. Times change and beliefs change. God is with all of us regardless of our sexual orientation. We were created by God and as someone told me "God don't make no junk." God is Love. These two people love each other and have committed to a relationship of love and support. I'm sure that God is quite happy about it. In any case, I am very happy! - Larry Kraft Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:15:50 +0100 http://www.pres-outlook.com/news-and-analysis3/1-news-a-analysis/9422-new-jersey-pastor-announces-same-gender-wedding.html#comment-5039 There was a time when a woman in the pulpit was considered "outside the will of God." So were interracial marriages. How easily we use the tagline, "the will of God." That's what the church said about Galileo and Newton and Darwin, too. Lots of Presbyterians found emancipation contrary to the will of God. Others thought that card-playing and theater attendance, not to mention drinking and smoking, were contrary to the will of God (well, okay, maybe smoking!). Augustine thought sex was unbecoming to a priest and contrary to the will of God. We all "use" the Bible, and that's the point: if we learn anything from history, religion has always claimed "the will of God" for all sorts of curious things (curious to us now, but, then, deadly serious and, of course, central!). If history tells us anything, it tells us to be deeply cautious in claiming "the will of God" for ourselves, and to be doubly cautious about the boundaries we draw. - Tom Eggebeen Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:31:35 +0100 http://www.pres-outlook.com/news-and-analysis3/1-news-a-analysis/9422-new-jersey-pastor-announces-same-gender-wedding.html#comment-5038 I read the Outlook story with deep sadness. Regrettably, Laurie McNeill will need to be disciplined by the Newark Presbytery for her marriage to Lisa Gollihue. Many in the PCUSA rejoice in this new union. I welled up with tears knowing that God's intention for marriage is between a man and a woman. I affirm Laurie's and Lisa's love for one another. Deep and trothful relationships between people of the same sex is a wonderful thing. However, taking the step to be married is clearly outside the will of God. I trust that Laurie will resign her position at Central Presbyterian Church and save the presbytery and denomination much anguish in having to discipline her. As a PCUSA pastor in Massachusetts I say "No" to gay and lesbian couples who ask me to marry them. I do so because the Book of Order states that marriage is between a man and woman. In like manner Laurie should have never been "married" in this state because of the clear teaching of the Book of Order. Jeff Winter Martha's Vineyard, MA - Jeff Winter Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:50:15 +0100 http://www.pres-outlook.com/news-and-analysis3/1-news-a-analysis/9422-new-jersey-pastor-announces-same-gender-wedding.html#comment-5037 I thought that our church's constitution was to reflect the will of God (as revealed in Scripture) instead of reflecting the "real world". It's been my understanding from my earliest days in the Reformed Tradition that the "real world" is totally fallen and depraved. Why would we want a constitution that reflects that? We would then cease to be the Church of Jesus Christ and instead become a merely secular organization. Sadly, it seems we are moving increasingly in that direction. - Rev. Harper Brady Fri, 20 Nov 2009 05:49:04 +0100 http://www.pres-outlook.com/news-and-analysis3/1-news-a-analysis/9422-new-jersey-pastor-announces-same-gender-wedding.html#comment-5036 I am aghast that this NJ pastor is stomping on the Scripture and the Book of Order in "marrying" someone of the same sex. It is true that we can find love in all the wrong places - Sam Shoemaker Fri, 20 Nov 2009 05:08:47 +0100 http://www.pres-outlook.com/news-and-analysis3/1-news-a-analysis/9422-new-jersey-pastor-announces-same-gender-wedding.html#comment-5033 Laurie: Blessings to you! I enjoyed sharing our 2006 Peacemaking trip with you and I wish you peace and love for your journey ahead. Those of us who do not understand exclusion in God's kingdom pray for a new day in a denomination we love. In peace, Leah - Leah Johnson Thu, 19 Nov 2009 20:38:41 +0100 http://www.pres-outlook.com/news-and-analysis3/1-news-a-analysis/9422-new-jersey-pastor-announces-same-gender-wedding.html#comment-5032 Congratulations to my Sister in Christ! Time for our church constitution to catch up with the 21st century and reflect the real world. Grace & Peace! - Noushin Framke Thu, 19 Nov 2009 17:29:24 +0100 http://www.pres-outlook.com/news-and-analysis3/1-news-a-analysis/9422-new-jersey-pastor-announces-same-gender-wedding.html#comment-5031 How long will we Presbyterians deny the reality of love? The desire for companionship? Intimacy? How long will resort to the medieval practice of celibacy for some? How long will we listen to the cry of our GLBT community and tell them how wrong they are? But then our track record on slavery and suffrage isn't so hot either; it took us years and a Civil War to work out civil rights, and years to grant women equal rights and to ordain them. And to this day, these two issues remain unresolved for many Americans and a lot of Presbyterians as well. Hats off to the future; it will come our way - love and hope are inexorable, but oh, the fight, along the way. Congrats to Laurie and Lisa ... and I pray that we Presbyterians will touch the richest parts of our heritage on justice and peace, and our fundamental respect for a person's confession of faith. Let's put an end to bedroom politics and reclaim the joy and the power and the freedom of faith in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Tom Eggebeen Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:44:02 +0100 http://www.pres-outlook.com/news-and-analysis3/1-news-a-analysis/9422-new-jersey-pastor-announces-same-gender-wedding.html#comment-5030 Congratulations to the happy couple! "What she does know is that, at age 49, she has married for the first time, and is thrilled." Good for you. Many Blessings! - JShuck Thu, 19 Nov 2009 14:43:27 +0100 http://www.pres-outlook.com/news-and-analysis3/1-news-a-analysis/9422-new-jersey-pastor-announces-same-gender-wedding.html#comment-5029 What does this matter, as the the almighty GAPJC (in all of their biblical knowledge and wisdom) have told us that such a thing does not even exist. She must be dreaming. - Toby Brown Thu, 19 Nov 2009 14:21:44 +0100