Comments for An open letter to my liberal-progressive friends at http://www.pres-outlook.com , comment 1 to 3 out of 3 comments http://www.pres-outlook.com Thu, 09 Feb 2012 21:29:07 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.pres-outlook.com/opinion3/editorials3/7782-an-open-letter-to-my-liberal-progressive-friends.html#comment-4115 Jack, while I appreciate your attempts to model mutual respect and to create a more open dialogue, I think it's time for PCUSA leaders to start working towards a more honest dialogue. I admire your persevering diplomacy, but I fear that it has just enabled a latent pluralism to become the de facto doctrine of the denomination. In agreeing to disagree on so many crucial points, the church as an institution has become an end in itself. Meanwhile, loyalty to the Gospel and the mission of Christ has been overshadowed if not neglected. Pluralism may feel good--those who are resigned to it often feel justified and even empowered as moderators and mediators. However, it is has poisoned honest dialogue, where true distinctions may be sought, and where right and wrong emerges in what is being distinguished. As Jesus demonstrated in the temple courts, we sometimes are faced with the choice of being good or being nice. One can be abusive in the name of truth (truth w/o love is worthless 1 Cor. 13:1), but sometimes love must be tough. As Edmund Burke wrote, "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Trying to play nice with everyone is not doing something if the end goal is to preserve a fragile and dishonest status quo. The centrist-ecclesiasts (as you put it) who I have experienced don't view the church as a fellowship of God's "Called-out ones" (Ecclesia). Instead, their loyalty is to the church as a kind of religious company. Their ecclesiology has moved from tradition to traditonalism. In the words of Jaraslav Pelican: "Tradition is the living faith of the dead; traditionalism is the dead faith of the living." - Tim Filston Tue, 30 Sep 2008 11:04:14 +0100 http://www.pres-outlook.com/opinion3/editorials3/7782-an-open-letter-to-my-liberal-progressive-friends.html#comment-4093 Thanks, Jack. I responded on my blog, http://shuckandjive.blogspot.com/2008/08/response-to-jack-haberer.html john - John Shuck Fri, 15 Aug 2008 16:20:24 +0100 http://www.pres-outlook.com/opinion3/editorials3/7782-an-open-letter-to-my-liberal-progressive-friends.html#comment-4089 My friend and brother Jack, For much of the last 30 years many of us have been offering our views on scripture, and our understandings on God, Jesus, salvation, and the work of the Spirit, and over and over again found ourselves either dismissed or stonewalled by a large proportion of the church. My belief has grown over these years that the real problem in our longterm failure to resolve the ordination issue lies not so much among the strong advocates of the right or left, but among those in the center who so badly want us to find something else to talk about. Of course the progressive / liberals will continue to offer our witness, but will we be given the courtesy of really being listened to? My hope is that next week you'll strongly urge the centrists to vigorously engage with the process and move this discussion to a new place over the next year. In my mind that is best hope for all of us, right, left, and middle. - Kenneth Cuthbertson Mon, 11 Aug 2008 08:32:17 +0100